Bukkit Help -> Resource

Hello,

As someone who spends hours upon hours trying to find links for the newer members in Bukkit Help, I've come up with an idea that might help the Helpers, and the Helpees. Similar to the Plugin Development -> Resources section, Bukkit Help could have it's own. This would be a place for the Helpers to search for information to solve issues. People have already started making auto-installers, FAQ guides, permissions setups and the likes. I think it's about time they get a place to converge and be sorted, for easier viewing and understanding. When someone has a question that has been answered a million times, you simply link them to Bukkit Help -> Resources, and tell them to search through the helpful guides.

Please show your support for this idea, and maybe @TnT can get it happening.

EDIT: I've tagged a few people who might be interested in this idea. I will remove their tag upon request. @codename_B @turt2live @ImminentFate @zipron @hammale @andrewpo @maxa2g @cray_Z

Good idea. Let's give it a try and see what's the result.

Thanks for your support. I've always had this idea, but now that I have some extra time to start pumping out user-friendly tutorials..

I, for one, support this idea

Thanks Sayshal!

Good idea, the only problem I have atm is that people don't search, or they don't find the right topics between tons and tons of new topics created. I don't really care where guide/tutorials/good help pages are stored, as long as people who need the help, can easily find it.

I do have some issues with the wiki though, I know people work hard on it, but many articles are outdated. This is no offence to any person, but I think this "scares" people to go and search the wiki. The best idea I can come up with is some kind of place where guide/tutorials/... are stored, after being approved by a mod; and with a good search function. I don't know if this fits in the image the staff has of the forum, but I certainly think it's would be helpfull to many beginners being able to find proper guides all together (because that's the problem, there's enough infdormation on the internet, even too much, but it is very difficult to find a proper guide,...)

That's only my opinion ofcourse,
zip

I approve this idea

Don't forget my noob level 99 guide

The reason(s) why I'd think we'd benefit from a sub-forum instead of along with a wiki is this:

1. To newer users, the Wiki looks 10x more complicated then the forums would. - Not much of a valid reason, but I'm just reminiscing of my days as a noob, trying to navigate the Wiki.

2. So many of the already-helping Bukkit-ers have setup very fluid, very simple, guides and tutorials. The sub-forum would present itself as a directory, like a phone-book, of information. Like the main thing people disliked with BukkitDev, it's another thing you have to get used to. The wiki seems to be more based on developing anyways. I truly believe it'll be easier, and more convenient to have a sub-forum, similar to Plugin Dev Resources.

3. This reason is just a thought. "Why not have one?". In all seriousness, it takes about 10 seconds to create a new sub-forum. About 30 minutes for a couple stickies with guidelines/rules/objectives to be posted, and about 10 minutes after that for the regulars to start stuffing it with information. Even if some of the information is a duplication of the wiki, it's still helpful and is still working towards lowering the need for 'Bukkit Help' in the first place.

4. The todo list of the Wiki compared to the 'todo list' of Bukkit Help:
Wiki: http://wiki.bukkit.org/Category:TODO
Bukkit Help: Create sub-forum for resources

I approve this idea.

im down for this but remember, @TnT ALWAYS SAYS NO

Unless convinced otherwise. I've already lightly talked to him in private conversation on the plans for Bukkit Help. I'm sure my persuasion will work eventually.

idk ive never heard him say yes

@Sayshal this is exactly what I have been developing in the Bukkit Docs project.

My current outlook on the project, and I realize that nothing has been noted about the Docs project since it's inception, is that the team should be dedicated to creating, developing, maintaining, and spotting well-done and helpful information on the Bukkit Project and helpful tutorials for new beginners.

I currently have a team of writers and myself working on creating content for the project, which is currently hosted on the wiki as a separated part. We haven't posted any tutorials or information as of yet as we are waiting for the right time to publish the documents.

The wiki is in need of a serious overhaul, and the Docs project is on it's way to doing that.

As for a subforum on the forums, we are looking more toward a contribution to Wiki documentation, which means: Cleaning up the wiki and putting factually valid content and making it somewhat useful.

As for the todo list on the wiki: The majority of the content on the Todo list is overhauling the structure and cleaning up the content which (suprise) is the goal of BukkitDocs.

We are always scanning the forums for new additions and factual tutorials to add to the project (suggestions encouraged!).

For more info on BukkitDocs, check out the Wiki Notices Page.

While that sounds lovely, the impact of the true community doing the work is shown as a greater motivation to help on the Bukkit Help section. I understand the Wiki may be in the rambles right now, and you plan on fixing it, but I don't see the disadvantage at both. Wiki's are a great thing, but personally, and I believe this for many people, the look of a forum for helpful information is easier to read and comprehend.

Also, and this is my main concern, as a person who's post-count strives from trying to help those in Bukkit Help, I have not once heard of any sort of wiki overhaul. Now, that may be because of my lack of looking in the wiki, or some other forum threads.

When I refer to the impact the community is having, I'm talking about those people who you see with numerous helpful guides in their signature. Unfortunately I haven't slept in 24 hours, so I can't tag any names right now.

Hopefully you see the value of what I'm trying to bring, and that maybe a sub-forum would be faster then a Wiki 'team'. I'd also like to bring up one last point.

The whole reason, and the start of this idea, sprouted from me searching through the Bukkit Help section, and being clogged with all the FAQs, the Permission guides, the 'support' threads (@M1sT3rM4n for example). I really just want to sort the 'Help me!' threads and the 'Get help here!' threads. (continued in next reply)

(PART 2)
Upon reading the link you provided I've gathered a few things:
1. The last update to the notice board, was January 8th. That's 6 months ago this Friday. So, 6 months ago, you made and published this idea for the Bukkit Docs Initiative. I have seen/heard little impact on the wiki. Don't confuse my words with discrimination, I'm only stating from my point of view what I've seen.

EDIT: (Before I continue, sorry if my posts are not in order/I repeat myself, I'm currently just adding as I think of new reasons why this should be a thing on Bukkit)

The Resource section that could possibly be added, could also be used as a Database of all the [SOLVED] threads you see. Before posting a thread in that section, users could be warned:
"Hey there! Before you post check <link>here</link> to see if it's already been answered!"

I totally understand your distress, and that's why the BukkitDocs project exists. To be honest the BukkitDocs documentation is supposed to be for the Help forum users Help-forum helpers to benefit from. Normally in a project you would never find documentation or tutorials on the forums, which is why the Wiki is where the Docs project will reside.

Additionally, the reason you never heard of any sort of Wiki overhaul is because it was in the scope of the Docs project (in other words, the announcement of the Docs Project was much greater than the Wiki overhaul announcement, therefore it was ignored)

While I see the value of a sub-forum as opposed to the wiki, and yes I agree that it would be faster than a dedicated documentation team, It's harder to validate the credibility and correctness of a user-posted tutorial as opposed to a thoroughly reviewed piece of official project documentation.

This is an amazing idea which I will implement posthaste.

Also, I'll mention again that we haven't posted any content due to not being able to find the correct time to launch the project. Since we've had quite a bit of updates the documentation has been changing constantly.

very cool concept but theres always those people who just dont want to search and HAVE to post the dumbest threads with 50 bumps...

I've highlighted where I think you've mainly misconceived my responses.

I think we should have both, while the credibility is hard, that's where the Bukkit Help Forum Moderator (@TnT) comes in. With Xenforo, it is very easy for @lukegb or whomever has said permissions, to make that Resource section administrated. Where TnT would have to check every single one, reject/offer corrections etc. I'm not looking for a replacement to the Wiki, I'm looking for an alternative for people who understand forums better and vice versa.

When you refer to a Wiki as a place for documentation, you're right. But Bukkit Help isn't for documentation (in a way, I guess is could be classified as such) but rather a place for Q&A's.

In the current 'Bukkit Help' model it works like this:
Step One: A person who requires help submits a post with some (sometimes none, sometimes a lot) of information, and then some sort of a question.
Step Two: Whomever chooses to reply does so, either asking for more information or supplies an answer. But within this step, often times the person who chooses to help has to do his own digging, and usually it's work the original poster should be doing.

In my new Resources section, the model would change to:

Step One: A person who requires help submits a post with some (sometimes none, sometimes a lot) of information, and then some sort of a question.
Step Two (A): The same thing happens as the old model, and then that information if put into the Resources section.
Step Two (B): The person who chooses to respond supplies a link to a Resources thread that contains the answers requested.

Yes, but the point I'm trying to make is that we shouldn't need a team of dedicated individuals to constantly scour the wiki to update anything that's wrong. The Resources bank would be, as I've said, a database of already-discovered information. Not necessarily a guide on setting up a server, but a post saying "Did you get this error with this message, here's how to fix it." Wiki should be, as @resba stated, a documented section for people looking for guides, and my proposed Resources section would be a database/container of community-based information. Precisely how the Plugin Developement Resources section operates.

Well yes, that's what this Database would be for. When they post those 50 bumps you give them the link to the sub-forum, and tell them to search. If then, they still cannot find the answer, you supply the help you usually would now.

in other words no but id have to agree with him on this one...

With all the information supplied, I'd like to remind you that this concept worked relatively well in the Plugin Dev section, which is why I keep referencing it. I don't want to replace the Wiki, because it is a helpful information. But one of the biggest concerns I've seen within the Bukkit Help threads is "How do I setup a server" or "How do I get permissions?" etc. Nobody knows where the wiki is, which I do find odd considering they found Bukkit Help buried... But still, the truth is the truth, more people seem to use the Bukkit Help then the wiki help.

again true...i think this is defiantly worth a shot

If not, and it miserably fails, close it and move on. Anyways, I won't be able to reply for 2 hours, have to head home.

Maybe I'm phrasing it wrong, I'm trying to make a bukkit help version of what plugin dev has. Just useful information supplied by the community. There really is no need for an "Official Wiki On How To Run a Bukkit Server".

I think what Sayshal is trying to say, to new bukkit-ers, the 'Official Wiki On How To Run a Bukkit Server' can be a bit confusing. I know I was confused when I first started using bukkit. I hardly knew how to use the forums, but if we had a specific section for new bukkit users to look at, where a group of trusted community members post tutorials on something a new person asks. Or tutorials of stuff those people know how to do well.

Correct me if I'm wrong

Cray