Bukkit: The Next Chapter

Discussion in 'Bukkit News' started by EvilSeph, Feb 28, 2012.

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    EvilSeph Bukkit Team Lead Administrator

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    What follows is a written account of Bukkit's story. If you'd rather know what the big news is, skip to the bottom. However, we'd appreciate it if you read through our entire story as it gives us an opportunity to show appreciation and give thanks to the many people, groups and companies that helped us throughout our adventure.

    When we started up Bukkit in December of 2010, we decided we wanted to do things right. Right from the beginning we wanted to be sure we were bringing about a positive change to Minecraft, one that Mojang themselves would approve of. To that end, we set up a meeting with Mojang to get a feel for their opinions on our project and make sure we weren't doing anything they didn't like. The gist of the meeting was that Mojang "liked what we were doing" but not how we had to go about doing things. Unfortunately, we both knew that we had no alternatives, so we continued along - albeit now with the reassurance that our project would most likely not be shut down any time in the future. We decided to create Bukkit to provide the Minecraft community with better tools to manage and extend their server, but our ultimate goal has always been to give the Minecraft community what it needed and wanted to make our favourite game even more enjoyable and being able to do so in an official capacity is our dream.

    Shortly after the launch of Bukkit, after I had posted an innocent announcement to get developers interested in Bukkit, our project exploded with activity. While I had anticipated developer interest and had planned for such, the added interest from the community as a whole was simply overwhelming. So much so that it had begun to put a strain on my dedicated server and actually was pushing it to the point of hardware failure. Luckily, it was around this time that Curse approached us and offered to set-up a temporary Amazon EC2 instance while they purchased new servers for our use. Unfortunately, the Amazon EC2 instance also could not keep up with the demand and was proving to be too costly. So, we asked around for help and Multiplay's Steve Hartland put us on one of their boxes free of charge while we waited for new servers to be purchased and delivered.

    One of the goals of the Bukkit project, or maybe just my personal goal, was to solve what I felt was a big problem within the Minecraft community: it was largely impossible for someone new to Minecraft to discover the unlimited potential of Minecraft modding. Not only would they have to deal with unwieldy and clunky forums, but there was also no central place for sharing your work. In answer to this problem, we endeavoured to create a new service dubbed Fill which we hoped would address all the needs of the community but were unable to gain any ground. We were simply not experienced enough to run something of this magnitude nor did we have the resources to pull it off. One day we were discussing the idea of Fill and our desire to provide a central download solution for the modding community and the WoW players on the team brought up Curse and the success they've had with WoWAce. At that point it all came together, not only did Curse have the resources to pull off something as large as we were envisioning in Fill, but they had the success, experience and scalable software with WoWAce to do so. With that, it was clear to everyone that Curse was the best route to take and dev.bukkit.org was born.

    When news broke out about Mojang organising a Minecon, the entire community was alight with excitement and anticipation. Even today, I still find the sheer dedication from the fans unbelievable and overwhelming. Though we were also excited about Minecon, there was no way we would be able to go since Bukkit is an open source, free project. Much to our surprise, though, Curse had other plans in mind. They decided to fly us over, cover our tickets and accommodation, host us in their booth and setup a panel for us. I've never met a company that cares more about gaming than Curse: when the possibility of their supporting the Bukkit project first came up, we were all blown away. Curse wanted to throw themselves behind our project. They wanted to provide us with the support and resources we needed to continue functioning, no questions asked and their desire to send us to Minecon further reinforced this opinion we had of them. Thanks to their support, we were able to go to Minecon, have a great time and put together a panel filled with our fans, as well as sneak off to a secret meeting with Mojang.

    Back in December of last year, my team and I were invited to Stockholm, Sweden by Mojang to discuss the future of Minecraft - and most importantly the future of Minecraft modding and the official Minecraft modding API. Having just recently met in Minecon, we mostly knew what to expect but were blown away by Mojang's hospitality and the surreality of actually being in Stockholm with them. Not only were we able to visit the Mojang HQ but we were also given the opportunity to be part of the launch of Cobalt (which was simply fantastic) and got to meet the entire team of talented individuals at Mojang. We spent the majority of our time with Mojang shooting ideas back and forth and getting a taste of what was to come and how we might be able to become involved.

    Which leads me to today. Our meeting at Minecon was just the beginning and after having flown us out to Stockholm to get to know each other, it was clear that the potential to do truly great things together was there and we were eager to explore it. After all, we had already been given a direct line to the Minecraft team, the source code and were actively providing Mojang with (exploit) patches and improvements. The next logical step was to figure out the best way to continue working together, perhaps in a more official and intimate capacity. After careful and lengthy consideration, the best course of action became clear. My team and I had already achieved what we wanted to when we started the Bukkit project: provide server admins with the means to easily customise and run their server and provide developers with an easy to use, properly designed API to bring their insane and cool ideas to life. The next obvious step was to make it more official and with news breaking out that Mojang was interested in developing an official Minecraft API, we knew just how to do that.

    I am extremely pleased and proud to announce that, as of today, the Bukkit team has joined Mojang. When discussing the possibility of a modding API publicly, Mojang was concerned that they would be unable to provide the community with a suitable and powerful enough solution and we honestly feel that our experience building Bukkit will help them do so. Thanks to our work with Bukkit, we have a years worth of experience, failures and lessons to help us develop a proper modding API and intend to do whatever it takes to produce one that satisfies the needs of the community. Now that we have an opportunity to design the official Minecraft API, we intend to make it a suitable replacement for Bukkit, if not a significantly better one, while bukkit.org will remain a community for modders for the foreseeable future.

    Official announcement from Mojang with more information: http://mojang.com

    [IMG]

    A big "thank you!" is due for the many sponsors we've had over the life of the project:
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    Curse
    eXophase.com - for hosting the project at the beginning and helping us get off our feet
    Unimatrix
    Arcdigital
    Multiplay - especially Steve Hartland
    [IMG]
    AllGamer - especially Clinton and Scott
    Our Staff who work tirelessly and thanklessly to keep everything in order
    and, of course, Mojang for giving us a chance, taking us seriously and supporting what we’re doing.

    And to you, our community and our family: thanks for sticking by us through thick and thin, we really would not be where we are today without you.

    This post has been edited 6 times. It was last edited by EvilSeph Jun 5, 2012.
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    hatstand

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    He may also be eating lunch.
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    mmob18

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    For some reason, I'm actually kinda sad about this... Bukkit was so good with it's code and stuff..
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    mmob18

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    Such a good comeback :)
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    ledhead900

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    In that case then if they are not prepared to IMPROVE the existing client to do such things then really SPOUT looking is better and better they already have a Craftbukkit++ for 1.1 that improves a lot of things performance wise.

    Second of all their new development is is going to create local servers being the client is also a server, This method apparently supports Vanillia client users also enjoying the SP mods hosted on the server end. But the point that Sold me was that they are keeping backwards compatibility with ALL of Bukkits older plugins that refuse to update or use what ever Bukkit becomes in future.

    This is probably the best news as Bukkit are going to have big changes that break every plugin to date and the way you use plugins will change, you may need to write permissions all over again starting fresh but. Does Bukkit cover this hell no.

    They are pushing the word out "that its our way or the highway" and that is not fair either, MANY MANY of now's plugins have good code in them and are not badly written but according to Bukkit who insist on changing hooks every single revision this is going to be an utter NIGHTMARE for Developers and Admins, as it is very likely that it will take many revisions of the new system before it becomes stable and who knows it might even break the game again once or twice. Only this time you can't just run a backup as its the client that would break.


    IMO the people around here that think nothing is going to change and Bukkit just work for Mojang adding the API in client are surly disillusioned or just have a complete lack of understanding on how this process is going to happen.



    At the end of the day modding will go where the people who are willing to do bolder things are and I'm officially pretty solid on the idea now that it's not going to be Bukkit/Mojang and NOT because of "SPOUT" but because of this exact quote.

    Modding is all about adding new possibility, if were just going to stop at server plugins and server plugins running on SP and not actually add the foundations for REAL MODS then this whole API is just a complete waste of developers time.

    The only reason I would EVER want a modding API in the client is so we can add GUI's and create a TRUE server to client relationship where BIG mods can be delivered to new users joining the server and if this is not going to happen then Bukkit has already lost the community as Spout are all for doing just that the best way possible.


    Whats funny to me is you have people like this person I quoted that has a very closed minded way of thinking, that assumes that people don't want GUI's and things due to custom clients, well that is exactly what won't happen if Bukkit Balls this opportunity.

    Developers will all move to a custom client that supports everything Mojang/Bukkit has failed to deliver and it really would not take that long before the word on internet changes to "custom client" for best experience in SMP or bust". Why would this happen? well I will tell you, what makes Bukkit and a modding community great is it has lots of support but if community turns to better pasture then so will the players.


    People don't want to use custom clients now only because its not the HAPPENING THING, but eventually it will be and when some of the BIG servers start taking notice and move up the rest will follow suit.

    We are talking about Spout as they are the ONLY competition so far that are actually doing such a thing. This is not the reason why a lot of us still call the end of Bukkit and if your going reply to this post just to argue against Spout then just shut up, as you clearly have no clue or ability to read between the lines.




    TL;DR
    This guy is a clear example of closed minded thinking, and in saying this further confirms that Bukkit are not going to deliver the best playing experience possible if they are not willing to improve the existing client to be capable of such things and more.

    For those that want to see what makes us excited about Spout development wise check here http://forums.spout.org/threads/spout-the-same-chapter.1495/page-35#post-20193 and http://forums.spout.org/threads/spout-the-same-chapter.1495/page-35#post-20352

    Spout is not even going to be a CUSTOM CLIENT for THIS game, they are evolving it into their own engine that is capable of using minecraft the game as a plugin.

    This post has been edited 5 times. It was last edited by ledhead900 Mar 8, 2012.
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    Celtic Minstrel

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    I don't know where you get the idea that they're not willing to improve the client. They may not improve it in the ways you want, but granted.

    It would be pretty much impossible for Spout to keep backward compatibility with all plugins ever written for Bukkit. For the most part, they would only be able to keep compatibility with the most recent version of the Bukkit API; they could perhaps add some deprecated methods back in, but that wouldn't guarantee compatibility.

    Of course it won't stop at server plugins. I don't see why you would think it would.

    GUIs are definitely not the primary reason to want a modding API in the client. What about custom blocks, entities, items? Custom sounds? I'd rate all of those as higher priority than a GUI API. I wouldn't say no to a GUI API; I didn't like how Spout did theirs, though, so I'd say you should be careful to work out such an API before slapping it on. I would say, however, that the vast majority of plugins have no need for a GUI, especially once you have the ability to send custom achievement-style messages. There are of course exceptions (plugins which really wouldn't work well without a GUI), and there are plugins that don't need it but made better for having it. But in general, it's not that important a component.

    I'll say now that I'm very reluctant to go through the process of modding my client. I don't really want to install a custom client. If I could play client mods with the vanilla client, I probably would. But the effort of installing a mod at the present time is not, in my opinion, worth it (especially since most of the client mods I have seen are, in my opinion, utterly terrible).

    There's no logic in assuming that the small servers will follow the big servers. For that matter, I think the big servers would in general be less likely to be ones that require client mods. If client mods are playable in a vanilla client, then maybe what you predict might have a chance of happening.

    This post has been edited 2 times. It was last edited by Celtic Minstrel Mar 8, 2012.
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    TnT Trinitrotoluene Maximus Administrator Bukkit Help

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    @ledhead900
    Who said they weren't prepared to make changes to the client?

    Since when do they change hooks EVERY revision? API's grow and evolve, if you want them to stay static forever, you want Canary (and even they realized that's not maintainable).

    Might have been a nightmare for developers, I can't really say. I didn't hear much besides the regular grumblings. I know it was not a nightmare for me, a server admin. I ran tests on my test server, and advised the plugin devs as nicely as I could, for the plugins that broke, that they might like update. My server is running the dev builds of CraftBukkit. While I admit, RB's are easier, I've been running CraftBukkit since build 1. *grandpa voice* We never had RB's back then and we hosted servers fine. Kids these days. Sure, are there going to be problems? Of course. Backups, backups, backups.

    Which Mojang employee said this? I didn't read it anywhere. Bukkit may have focused on server mods, but that's Bukkit. The Mojang API doesn't need to be like that.

    Speculation is not fact. There is a good reason more has not been said about what the future holds is because there is not enough to say. As you have demonstrated, even the slightest suggestion that something *may* happen means to some people that it *will* happen. EvilSeph is very careful to only state what he knows will happen, to avoid confusing the community. This allows us moderators to say: "Speculation is not fact" because most of what has been said in this thread is exactly that - speculation.
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    ledhead900

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    I never said Bukkit would not improve the client, I only said it sounded as if they had no intentions to improve it to the point that we would really care.

    1. I mean It has been flogged to death already just how bad we want to have TRUE modding supported over server EG. mods like industrial craft working over vanilla with out the need to pre MOD the client.

    That is the advantage that needs to be taken now that Bukkit joins Mojang, Server plugins are not bad but at the same time its not going to be any different if that's all they are going try and improve for the modding side of things. You argue the fact thru out your post that you want proper vanilla modding that does not require modding the client manually to work on the server and that was my actual point in the Bold text. I disagree with your ideology about the API not being useless tho, its fine the way it now and moving it is just going to make it even harder to improve it as a community.

    I don't see how this move helps developers and admins at all, the end user does not have to do anything special now, and we still have no official word from the team exactly what the plans are for the future of what we have now, until then I can assume anything I darn well want and compare it with others that are already acting to minimize the backfire of this change.

    2. Also yep your right about FULL backwards compatibility but at least they acknowledge it when has Bukkit every did anything to try maintain compatibility, I only ever seen them announce that everyone should update.

    3. We have heard no comment so far, and that actual bit of info you so kindly decided was worth separating belonged to a statement to the of a what if scenario directed at the user I quoted. Just one reason you prob should respond to that post as a whole rather then nit pick it as things wont make sense with out further info down the post.

    4. I never said they were the primary reason, again you nit picking something that has a greater meaning over the life of the entire post

    5. Spout is not going to be a Custom Client its going to be a VOXEL engine capable of running Minecraft as a plugin not directly going to be a new client built around the game, read my URL's I posted below. Also reluctance is just a matter of the now people, another reason you should have responded to post as a whole as it again is part of a greater meaning.

    6.I'm not really assuming anything modders will go were the features and stability is, Players will follow in time, that point I was making is wast that the community changes and would likely start to follow if the developers lead the way into it. I thought this was pretty clear. There is no guarantee anyone will but it it is likely that if that is were server modding takes us that is also what may become the norm for playing servers. Again its just one of those big picture things that was better explained by taking the whole post rather then nit picking it.

    Who said anything was actually factual, I'm thinking WORST case here, your correct about one part though there has been no official word from the Team what so ever about the future in store, and this opens the door for speculation and what if's, so until we have any "Fact" to go by I can pretty much speculate on anything.

    For me I work on the fact that if there is no hard evidence that something WILL happen then it probably may not and then I speculate about it. People who take "Will" and "May" as the same thing line themselves up for disappointment and is really no concern to me if they understand the difference in context or not.

    Though again you are just taking parts of my post that need to be looked at as a whole and trying to nit pick it, almost every sentence in my post will be flawed if you try looking for facts or try to separate it from the overall picture I was trying to paint. I did sum up the entire post with a simple TL;DR snip for those people that I knew would nit pick it this covers my point pretty well on its own.

    I was overall responding to
    With the idea that he is assuming that Bukkit have no plans to rectify the need to make formidable changes to the client to allow these kinds of mods to work right over the entire vanilla experience. I don't see you quoting his comments to say they are not factual and that there is no word that Bukkit are NOT going to make changes so that this becomes easier.

    After all that person is just speaking with knowing how things work now with out speculating to account any future changes. But whats makes thinking like that any different from speculating on things we have no hard facts about ?

    This post has been edited 9 times. It was last edited by ledhead900 Mar 8, 2012.
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    Silvanarix

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    Im sorry, I must have misread your post. My apologies! Now that I truly consider it, our only options are going to be /commands and clunky signs all over the place. The only thing harder than teaching these people /commands is teaching them to install client side mods. Is it because I cannot do so? no, its because they aren't savvy at all. Asking them to download winrar or any other archiver would be like asking a 90 year old amish woman to reseat a processor =P
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    ledhead900

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    The very reason why I continue to debate and argue points around that we need the vanilla client overhauled from ground up to support modding like this.
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    Silvanarix

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    I like the way you think =)
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    Celtic Minstrel

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    I'm actually unsure what part of my post you're responding to here.

    It won't work with the vanilla Minecraft client; that's the point I was making. Also you seem to be making a big point of VOXEL... I don't see that that's a particularly boastworthy thing. From what I understand (which is admittedly not that much), "voxel" is just a way of rendering that's based more on "atoms" rather than "vertices and polygons". In fact, my first instinct would be to suggest that it's worse than the more common vertex-based method for something like Minecraft... I could be way off there, though.

    Eh, there has been no word from the team largely because they have been busy fixing critical bugs for a recommended build. Aside from that, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to keep away from this thread just because of the atmosphere of "Gimme my facts now" that tends to pervade the posts here. Of course, that last is also speculation. ;)

    I'm confused at how you draw this conclusion.
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    ledhead900

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    I was covering two bits but its not really worth going over again, as I covered them both separately as well. Well as far as recent news is concerned with Spout it appears they are not actually wrapping minecraft directly or anything like that. Also I get where you are coming from but arguments are that if Bukkit does not do something about this someone else will and eventually community will move again, I know that right now nobody wants to be limited to custom clients but this MAY not be the case in future it might be acceptable or even mandatory and that is where I am coming from in that regard about Spout and my prev arguments but this is the same reason why Spout and Bukkit don't see eye to eye as they only want to work with the vanilla client while Spout more less want nothing to do with it and instead wrote their own less buggy stuff.

    Speaking of Spout again let me speculate a little more on what I think they are trying to do.

    They are creating a platform that is capable of loading minecraft.jar as a module, Like how some other games do it such as Elder of Scrolls does with its modding how you need to load the core game module but the rest is optional I think they are planning something like that for Minecraft so that its not actually modifying anything and the mods don't need to be installed into the jar they can be downloaded as plugins and just sit within the directory and loaded along side the core in this case Minecraft.jar I think we need more info from @Afforess though about this as I'm just speculating a bit about what I read.


    A bit more about Voxel engine's below as I know Notch quite excited about some of the game engines being used for it but just as doupt full at the same time as it allows real time and almost limitless amounts of detail to be loaded and manipulated and its apparently very very fast to do so a lot faster then poly and vertex modeled worlds.

    Engine Demo - Not sure I just did quick search on this - Side Bar a lot of other stuff leading from that demo



    Here is the Factual stuff that Notch was quoted on its again another DEMO but lots detail about how it works.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/02/notch-vs-unlimited-detail/

    Notch is not really a fan as these engines have not really been used in production of anything so they are still pretty hear say at this point but they seem to have potential and they may be were games will be at some point, in any-case this is in no relation I don't think to my Spout stuff I just relay what I read on a post on their forums it was not an official statement though so speculate away I guess.

    Tho this Voxel stuff looks cool but lets get back on topic you can research this stuff on your own I'm sure.

    I also am not sure how @Silvanarix got that conclusion, I just tend to think more about future things less about now as we already know what is used and done now so speculating at this point as good as it going to get but it may prove useful to argue various things around like I have been lately.

    Anyway Silvanarix you can already do better now some plugins are just drag and drop into the plugin folder and effects modify existing game items and are command-less and sign-less, Take that StickyPiston mod for example that allows sticky piston to push up to 12 blocks in any direction including other sticky pistons it had no commands and no signs it worked like a normal piston only difference was it could push more.

    Other mods work like that one as well you don't always need a command or sign or anything noticeable that you need to do to make it function some things just alter Vanilla mechanics, ManySmallTweaks is another example allows rails to float and buttons and levers to be placed on any sides of a block on any block even in the air this was also drag and drop and u turned on what features u wanted.

    This post has been edited 1 time. It was last edited by ledhead900 Mar 8, 2012.
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    Silvanarix

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    Bukkit is designing a server for Mojang, its not going to be Bukkit, that doesnt mean that the clients(unless you use spout) are going to have the capability for anything other than /commands and clunky signs until Mojang decides otherwise.
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    Silvanarix

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    But if you use an economy plugin theres a /balance command, lets not forget about /home, /sethome, /back, /invite, /accept, /ptp name name, /npc, /dt home.. thats just a couple of plugins. I truly enjoy the mcmmo plugin as well! Which includes /mctop, /stats, /skillnames. With spout essentials I was able to place most of those commands on a button for my users. They press '~' and the menu pops up. I believe that is a fantastic way to avoid the common user from having to memorize the more complicated commands. Will I be letting just anyone on my server create NPC's using citizens2? nah, that would be chaos. I just want to make it easier for them, so far only spout can do that effectively. I have no doubt in my mind that the Bukkit devs rockin out with Mojang will bring great things to the game, I just hope to see more functionality in the client-side as well.
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    MachetePanda

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    Bukkit doesnt need to force any one to use it... Spout doesnt, you can connect to a spout server with out the spout client.

    It would be an option for the plugin developers if they want to add it, and it would be an option for the client end if they want to use it.

    Now if your saying Bukkit isn't doing it cause it doesn't want the developers to have that option... that is a problem I would have as a developer.
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    Celtic Minstrel

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    I am aware of this.

    You're saying "vanilla client" as if it were a bad thing, yet with the Bukkit team working on it, there's no reason to assume that will always be the case.

    Uhhh, no, they're making a brand-new engine that has nothing to do with Minecraft, plus a plugin for that engine which will make it behave like Minecraft.

    I think you may have misunderstood that blog post... as I recall, he was complaining about the hype in that video, not about voxel engines in general.

    Things other than commands and magic signs are already possible. You can use items, for example; it's still not ideal, but it's much better than commands. You could use an inventory GUI. SimpleSignEdit lets you edit signs using the built-in sign GUI. It's reasonable to expect that the client's capabilities will increase a little... I wouldn't be surprised if they don't add anything completely new, but I could be wrong. Still, there are things the client is capable of that the server cannot use due to a lack of packets controlling them.

    What if I decide I'd rather press * to make your command menu pop up? Is that possible? It should be; all the other important keys are rebindable. I use the numeric keypad for Minecraft, for example.

    I can't argue with this... however, is it the only way? Is it the best way? For some of the things you listed, it might be. For others, like the McMMO commands, not so much; these would do better to repurpose the effect system in the inventory display.

    I'm sure there will be more functionality. The only real question for me is what that new functionality will be.
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    Silvanarix

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    Yes, it is possible to remap the key, if you are using the spoutclient.
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    Celtic Minstrel

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    Fair enough! I'm pretty sure there was a stage where you couldn't, so I wasn't sure if that had changed.

    This post has been edited 1 time. It was last edited by Celtic Minstrel Mar 8, 2012.
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    troed

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    You're posting in the wrong forum (please, if I want to read someone's wet dreams about Spout I'll head over there) and you're also, in every single post, posting guesses and speculations as to what Mojang will or will not do as if they were facts.

    Yeah I'll believe that when it happens. If you thought the wait between an MC release and a Bukkit RB was bad ..
  22. Offline

    ubudog

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    Awesome news!
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    knuckles001

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    wow corngratz! and thanks! i will miss bukkit...
    the bad news is in the new minecraft api probably u will need to pay for modding and for each mod that u download, like a aplestore or something (notch said that in his blog), yeah for real niggs, well i hope that it wont happen :3
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    troed

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    If you're talking about this I'm not sure I read it the same way. Also, that was before acquiring the Bukkit team.
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    ledhead900

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    I have your solution for that, DON"T READ IT THEN. I have said many times it's speculation if others take it as fact, knowing that EvilSeph nor anyone else has commented to prove anything is not my problem if they confront me about it I will tell them its not fact just I have been. Again only about 2% of the talk here is about differences on what Spout do better and that is only talk again if your against them don't even reply to talk about what others think Bukkit could learn from.

    I am only going to say this again once, while there is no OFFICIAL word from either party Mojang or Bukkit we are pretty much free to "speculate" and "guess" all we want if you don't want to read those posts then I suggest you take a better look at your mouse's scroll wheel.

    You can't tell someone they are not allowed to guess or speculate on things not yet decided or spoken about. We were left with this bombshell and then nothing else, I'm aware the team is currently busy getting recommended build but I don't think that is the reason why they have not posted any further news. I could take another guess but that might disturb your day.

    Your probably right about that :)

    Well if your going to call out the fact I dislike the Vanilla client due its ability to turn a snapshot version that runs much better then the previous release then when the release comes out drops 200fps then, Yes I hope that Bukkit do something about this and improve the client, how many times do I have keep telling everyone I'm not against Bukkit I really do hope they live up to the hype that they now have. I have been not so much a fan of Mojang though for quite some time I have my reasons I don't need to go over again what is wrong about how they do things as its quite well known to most of you decent developers I'm sure.


    Well that was what I generally getting at, I speculated a little but I did say it was a new engine, I also I rather see Afforess confirm some more things as its not entirely clear what they are doing at this point.
    Apparently I did my apologies, I never really followed it all that long, I just knew he had doubt's about it.

    This post has been edited 5 times. It was last edited by ledhead900 Mar 9, 2012.
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    KakusCraft

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    The drama continues..... *Grabs PopCorn*
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    Celtic Minstrel

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    ledhead900

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    Drama, the building blocks of society
    Inscrutable likes this.
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    Celtic Minstrel

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    Block ID 124: The Drama Block.
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    sd5

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    Bukkit will die.......
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    HockeyMike24

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    Will the new API be in MC version 1.3?
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    Celtic Minstrel

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    Will it? :p
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